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Author Topic: Mitchell/Uteck Bowls 2012  (Read 4479 times)
MacNab Grad
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« on: Sun, 11-Nov-12 @ 06:48:09PM »
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Calgary @ McMaster.
Acadia @ Laval.

Predictions?
What does each team need to do to win?


I see the Vanier being Mac/Laval.


http://watch.tsn.ca/cis-games-on-demand/hardy-cup-regina-rams-vs-calgary-dinos/#clip803945

here's a link to the Calgary/Regina game, it's the first quarter. bottom right are links to all 4 quarters.
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« Reply #1 on: Sun, 11-Nov-12 @ 06:52:54PM »
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Calgary and Laval
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to make it interesting
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« Reply #2 on: Sun, 11-Nov-12 @ 09:57:57PM »
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Just to make it a little interesting, i'm going to go on a gamble and say, Acadia and Calgary are going to meet in Toronto. I honestly believe the two underdogs coming into the Semi's will win their respective games.You may all think i'm crazy but this how I see it, I want Calgary to beat the Undefeated,Defending National Champions and of course as everybody does, I want to see Acadia make history ending Laval's "PEPS STREAK" as I like to call it and see an AUS team in the Vanier Cup.
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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 05:31:16AM »
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Just to make it a little interesting, i'm going to go on a gamble and say, Acadia and Calgary are going to meet in Toronto. I honestly believe the two underdogs coming into the Semi's will win their respective games.You may all think i'm crazy but this how I see it, I want Calgary to beat the Undefeated,Defending National Champions and of course as everybody does, I want to see Acadia make history ending Laval's "PEPS STREAK" as I like to call it and see an AUS team in the Vanier Cup.
is Calgary an underdog? I see this game as a "pick 'em".
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« Reply #4 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 09:26:55AM »
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Coming from out west Calgary is looked at to be the favorite.  McMaster has not played a team in the east that has a running back like Lumbala (who ran for 252 yards in the Hardy) nor an oline like Calgary has.  Combine that with a QB that can throw Dzwilewski who had 33 completions (a team record) Saturday for 377 yards in bad conditions.  Closest thing the East has to Calgary is Western except Calgary has a better running back, better oline, can pass better with a better QB, is bigger and more physical than Western and has a better head coach and coaching staff. Nill realized last year vs Laval that you have to be able too pass the ball and has gone out of his way to develop a first rate passing attack while not taking away from the running game. Football out here is more physical than down east.
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« Reply #5 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 10:19:51AM »
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With MAC and Calgary these are the top two offences in the nation, but in terms of Calgary being favourites, one also has to ask what kind of defences they were meeting up with in CW. Of the four worst teams in terms of yards per game across the CIS it reads Alberta (475.8 ypg), UBC (476.8 ypg), Waterloo (534.2 ypg) and then Manitoba (570.4 ypg). Sask is a bit better at 425.0 ypg but other than Regina, who only gave up 392.1 ypg, all the other defences gave up huge yardage. That's not just against Calgary either (although 4x Calgary gained more than 600 yards total offence this season, twice going over 700 yards!). So it is worth questioning the strength of the defences the Dinos played, how that stacks up against the MAC D, and if they will find the same sort of success this week.

As much as Calgary will have a vaunted run game with Lumbala which may be a shock for MAC, the Dinos won't have faced a QB like Quinlan before either. The guy has a great arm and is extremely smart when making passes, while at the same time rushes well and is known for running through defenders and requiring multiple people to drag him down in the open field. Quinlan is going to present a huge test for the Dinos as well.

I give the edge to MAC, but I do think it's going to be an amazing game. Both of these two were the dominant teams in their respective conferences all season long, so we'll see how they deal with this high level of competition.

In the Uteck it's Laval, at home (looking for their 58th straight home win), against Acadia. Laval already beat the Axemen once this year and that was before they changed OC's and their offensive output went skyrocketing in comparison to the beginning of the season. The Acadia D is pretty good, and Graves is a good passer - and the Laval secondary is the weak spot of that D - but I see no way Acadia walks out of PEPS with the victory. Sorry Axemen...

My prediction for the Vanier is a rematch of last season: MAC v Laval. We'll see how it plays out!
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« Reply #6 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 11:53:05AM »
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Coming from out west Calgary is looked at to be the favorite.

OK, if you say so.

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McMaster has not played a team in the east that has a running back like Lumbala (who ran for 252 yards in the Hardy) nor an oline like Calgary has.

Lumbala will very definitely be a problem, but this Mac's D hasn't changed much since it limited Varga in last year's Yates Cup.

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Calgary has a better running back, better oline, can pass better with a better QB, is bigger and more physical than Western and has a better head coach and coaching staff.

The running back I agree with, the rest is your opinion.

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Nill realized last year vs Laval that you have to be able too pass the ball

It only took him about 4 Final Four appearances to figure that out, except, someone showed him --- Ptasczek at Mac.

You haven't mentioned Calgary's secondary --- who haven't faced a QB like Quinlan, because there is no QB in the CIS like Quinlan. Calgary's Dline has to totally dominate Mac's Oline, but Mac's Oline is as good as Calgary's, which is to say very good. Better hope Quinlan has no time.

This game will be close. So if by "favourite" you mean Calgary by 3 pts, OK.

If you mean Calgary by 28 points, no way.

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« Reply #7 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 05:29:33PM »
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Uteck Bowl - Laval wins by half

Mitchell Bowl - not so easy to predict I think.  Both teams can score, Calgary more than McMaster lately.  I really want to say Mac wins this game on paper but I'm not positive they get into the Mitchell Bowl if so many scores weren't set up by the Mac defense, I think 7 takeaways against Western and 5 against Guelph.  Some of these takeaways set up short scoring drives.  If Calgary's defense is better than anything Mac has seen this year than I expect a lower scoring game then both teams are used to.
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« Reply #8 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 09:55:09PM »
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The Mac vs. Calgary game has epic potential!  Gaydosh will without a doubt be the best D-Lineman that the Mac OL will have faced all season.  Also, Verdone will be the best LB that the Mac offense will of faced all season.  It will be an interesting match up.

Calgary has an extensive QB read option run game.  They read a variety of players on the Zone run game (DT, DE, LB) and they run some inverted veer as well.  I'm curious to see what Coach Knox will dial up to combat this.
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« Reply #9 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 10:10:10PM »
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Coming from out west Calgary is looked at to be the favorite. 

By who, and why? MAC is the defending Vanier Cup Champions, and are in the midst of a CIS record 20 game win streak, so why are Calgary considered favourites?


McMaster has not played a team in the east that has a running back like Lumbala (who ran for 252 yards in the Hardy) nor an oline like Calgary has.

Not this year no, however last year they did face an RB named Tyler Varga, and stopped him. And Western's OL is extremely close, if not as good as Calgary's, along with Laval's.


Combine that with a QB that can throw Dzwilewski who had 33 completions (a team record) Saturday for 377 yards in bad conditions.  Closest thing the East has to Calgary is Western except Calgary has a better running back, better oline, can pass better with a better QB, is bigger and more physical than Western and has a better head coach and coaching staff.

There are many QB's that can throw the ball very well, across the country in the CIS. None better than MAC's own Kyle Quinlan though. Last year in the Vanier Quinlan completed 36 passes for 482 yards, bet you Calgary has never seen a QB do that before. Lumbala is better than who Western has? The OUA had the top 3 rushers in the CIS, and one of MAC's RB's led the nation in yards per carry, yes, Lumbala is a great back, but wouldn't say MAC hasn't seen a back like him, especially when you consider Varga last year. O-line is subjective, what do you consider better, quick oline that can pass block? Big oline that can pancake for the run every play? a combination? Western, Laval etc all have great OL's along with macs. Leading passer in the CIS was from the OUA, in Kennedy from Windsor (yards per game). TD-INT rate Quinlan was tops, completion percentage was Dzwilewski with Quinlan a very close second, while Quinland (tied with Greene from UBC) led all QBs in rushing yards, tied for 20th of all players with 550 yards, while Dzwileski didn't crack the top 50 which was only 228 yards. So more than double the rushing yards. Bigger than Western? Western's OL avg's 314 a player, can't see Calgary's being much, if any bigger than that...and more physical? Western pounds the ball inside play after play behind these guys, they're about as physical as it'll get. And it doesn't get much better than Marshall when it comes to coaching...though I wouldn't say he's THE best coach in the CIS.


Nill realized last year vs Laval that you have to be able too pass the ball and has gone out of his way to develop a first rate passing attack while not taking away from the running game. Football out here is more physical than down east.

Yeah, Nill realized that when McMaster beat Laval in the Vanier with a passing attack... and based on what is football out there more physical?
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« Reply #10 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 10:49:57PM »
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If Mac and Calgary truly compare throughout the roster talent-wise, and maybe that's the case maybe not, then the team with the more experienced/reliable QB has the edge.  Did Mac ever pull Quinlan from a game this season for performance reasons?  Calgary did that twice.  Both defences will get some pressure on the opposing QB, and the QB which handles that the best wins. That's likely to be Quinlan.
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« Reply #11 on: Mon, 12-Nov-12 @ 10:57:34PM »
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If Mac and Calgary truly compare throughout the roster talent-wise, and maybe that's the case maybe not, then the team with the more experienced/reliable QB has the edge.  Did Mac ever pull Quinlan from a game this season for performance reasons?  Calgary did that twice.  Both defences will get some pressure on the opposing QB, and the QB which handles that the best wins. That's likely to be Quinlan.

That's actually a very good point, and I agree 100%. I don't think I've ever seen once where Quinlan was phased by the pressure of the moment or anything of the sort.
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« Reply #12 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 02:00:03PM »
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Not this year no, however last year they did face an RB named Tyler Varga, and stopped him. And Western's OL is extremely close, if not as good as Calgary's, along with Laval's.

Western's O-line is good, yes. But Calgary's is probably the best in the CIS.


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There are many QB's that can throw the ball very well, across the country in the CIS. None better than MAC's own Kyle Quinlan though. Last year in the Vanier Quinlan completed 36 passes for 482 yards, bet you Calgary has never seen a QB do that before. Lumbala is better than who Western has? The OUA had the top 3 rushers in the CIS, and one of MAC's RB's led the nation in yards per carry, yes, Lumbala is a great back, but wouldn't say MAC hasn't seen a back like him, especially when you consider Varga last year. O-line is subjective, what do you consider better, quick oline that can pass block? Big oline that can pancake for the run every play? a combination? Western, Laval etc all have great OL's along with macs. Leading passer in the CIS was from the OUA, in Kennedy from Windsor (yards per game). TD-INT rate Quinlan was tops, completion percentage was Dzwilewski with Quinlan a very close second, while Quinland (tied with Greene from UBC) led all QBs in rushing yards, tied for 20th of all players with 550 yards, while Dzwileski didn't crack the top 50 which was only 228 yards. So more than double the rushing yards. Bigger than Western? Western's OL avg's 314 a player, can't see Calgary's being much, if any bigger than that...and more physical? Western pounds the ball inside play after play behind these guys, they're about as physical as it'll get. And it doesn't get much better than Marshall when it comes to coaching...though I wouldn't say he's THE best coach in the CIS.
Lumbala spent most of the year injured and was used sparingly. Sanvido isn't even close to Lumbala yet, Maybe in a few years. Kennedy had alot of yards but some of his other stats were pretty underwhelming. Statistically speaking, its between Dzwilewski and Quinlan, and stats wise they are even. Quinlan gets his edge from the attitude and big play ability he possesses. Dzwilewski is just as good of a scrambler as Quinlan. Calgary's offense didn't run alot of keeper options for him this year, but take a look at last year's Hardy cup to see what happens when he runs the ball. Expect this to change for Saturday. As far as the o-line goes, Mac is in fact heavier across the line, and taller on one end of it with Sewell. Calgary relies on its experience on the line (3 CFL drafted players) which is second to none in the CIS.

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Yeah, Nill realized that when McMaster beat Laval in the Vanier with a passing attack... and based on what is football out there more physical?

Also not entirely true. Nill realized it when, two years in a row, he tried to switch from an all-out running attack all year to an all-out passing attack in the space of a week, against a very good team. It was then followed up by the way in which Mac beat Laval with the air attack. Don't give Mac so much credit for a realization that Calgary made on its own.

Physicality of western football is a widely held stereotype. Quebec=speed. Ontario=skill game. West= physical game. Its a stereotype commonly accepted by many.

As far as your Marshall vs. Nill comparison. Both are actually pretty average coaches. Their strength lies in their recruiting prowess. Neither of these guys touches Constantin (recruitment and coaching) or Ptaszek (coaching).
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« Reply #13 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 03:48:29PM »
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Dzwilewski is just as good of a scrambler as Quinlan.

This I don't buy as I've seen Quinlan run through multiple defenders, hurdle defenders (the most famous one of course being during the Vanier last season), and even take multiple players with him while he kept his legs pumping as they were trying to bring him down. I don't think I've seen any other QB in the CIS do the same however correct me if I'm wrong, because I've seen a few but only a few Calgary games over the past two seasons.

I am one of those who believe that while Dzwilewski is a very skilled quarterback he has to prove he's able to match Quinlan this weekend, through the air and on the ground. C'mon CDF, do your best to convert me over!  Cool
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« Reply #14 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 04:05:54PM »
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Quinlan can run like a running back, I will absolutely give him that. Unfortunately, they ability to run over defenders is not what makes a good scrambler, its what makes a reckless scrambler. If Quinlan tries to play games like that with someone like Jordan Verdonne or Doc Cassama... he's going to get killed. I give him credit for trying to make plays and elevate his team, its what makes him great! But if he goes out there and gets himself hurt... then Mac could very well be toast.

It is not unheard of for Dzwilewski to rush for close to 100 yards in a game. He's a fantastic scrambler, and should DeLaval decide to incorporate it, then look to see Dzwilewski picking up yards in bunches on Saturday.

The only reason i'm trying to pump up Dzwilewski here is because the consensus thus far has been that Calgary can't win because of the quarterback position... that Quinlan basically equals Calgary having no chance. If dzwilewski has a good game and Calgary's receivers catch the ball (which they have a habit of forgetting how to do in big games), then Calgary and Mac will be even.
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« Reply #15 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 04:15:36PM »
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This year Dzwilewski was 41 for 166 on the ground with a long of 20 yards, 5 TDs while averaging 4.04 yards per run.

While Quinlan was 55 for 550 on the ground with a long of 67 yards, 7 TDs while averaging 10 yards per run.
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« Reply #16 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 06:19:00PM »
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Quinlan can run like a running back, I will absolutely give him that. Unfortunately, they ability to run over defenders is not what makes a good scrambler, its what makes a reckless scrambler. If Quinlan tries to play games like that with someone like Jordan Verdonne or Doc Cassama... he's going to get killed. I give him credit for trying to make plays and elevate his team, its what makes him great! But if he goes out there and gets himself hurt... then Mac could very well be toast.

It is not unheard of for Dzwilewski to rush for close to 100 yards in a game. He's a fantastic scrambler, and should DeLaval decide to incorporate it, then look to see Dzwilewski picking up yards in bunches on Saturday.

The only reason i'm trying to pump up Dzwilewski here is because the consensus thus far has been that Calgary can't win because of the quarterback position... that Quinlan basically equals Calgary having no chance. If dzwilewski has a good game and Calgary's receivers catch the ball (which they have a habit of forgetting how to do in big games), then Calgary and Mac will be even.

I like Verdone but doubt he'll intimidate Quinlan.

Mac had all three linebackers make OUA all star, no easy task in any division.

Mac has a better secondary than Calgary has played against this season.

I don't think this game will be as close as some predict.  I think the CW is much weaker than most realize.
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« Reply #17 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 07:39:41PM »
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This year Dzwilewski was 41 for 166 on the ground with a long of 20 yards, 5 TDs while averaging 4.04 yards per run.

While Quinlan was 55 for 550 on the ground with a long of 67 yards, 7 TDs while averaging 10 yards per run.

Quinlan and MAC's numbers were against better teams. The West had little competition to offer Calgary.
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« Reply #18 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 09:21:18PM »
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 Mac should take this one quite easily. Last year Calgary was unmatched playing against Laval. However let us go forward to the future and a week later,we find Mac holding the Vanier Cup, beating the Rouge et Ors, the same team that just manhandled the Dinosaurs. Calgary looks good because of their competition but in the larger picture not so much. The OUA and the Q are playing at another level compared to the other two, Canada West is a slighly weaker league than the OUA, leaving the AUS it's own backyard.
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« Reply #19 on: Tue, 13-Nov-12 @ 11:11:10PM »
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All of the previous posts have been about Mac not seeing an offense like calgarys. The closest comparison I would say is Ottawa's read option game. I also thought that Gillanders and sene looked better than lumbala when I was fortunate enough to attend the east/west bowl so saying that Mac is not prepared is not entirely true. Although I'm not aware which offense ottawa ran when they played McMaster this year.. Regardless, I completely expect Mac to win this game, they are too strong
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